Linda Harvey

Harvey: Why Are Gay People So Afraid To Know The Truth?

Linda Harvey doesn’t understand why gay people won’t simply admit that they are lying about their sexual orientation and choose to be straight. “The main reason people now believe some are born homosexual is because those who are currently committed to and want to continue this conduct say so,” the Mission America host lamented. 

“If the person really wants the truth” about why he or she is gay, Harvey said, they would realize it is almost related to tragedies “from child molestation to other traumatic childhood experiences in childhood to neglectful, disordered or abusive parents.”

“The question becomes: do we want to know the truth?” Harvey wondered. “Sometimes people hold onto what they know even if it is uncomfortable, even if they realize they could probably do something different because change can be a lot of work, change can mean confessing sin, change can mean your circumstances might be shaken up.”

Linda Harvey Says HIV Cases Among Youth Will Increase Thanks To Ex-Gay Therapy Ban, Chris Christie

Mission America’s Linda Harvey predicts that cases of HIV will rise among New Jersey youth as result of a bill signed by Gov. Chris Christie that bars the use of ex-gay therapy on minors, warning that the law will be exploited by “HIV-infected predators.” Harvey accused Christie of backing “the gay-stapo” and “fascist left-wing schemes” that are “keeping some adolescents locked into homosexuality,” which she said is a “byproduct of early sexual exposure or molestation.”

“If 12-year-olds are indoctrinated at school into thinking they are homosexual and end up the victims of advances by HIV-infected predators, maybe the governor is not too concerned,” Harvey continues. “If New Jersey HIV incidence relating to homosexual practices continues to rise among youth, perhaps he can point to some other factor.”

Gov. Christie just did their bidding for the third time in affirming anti-child, pro-homosexual actions against minors in New Jersey. He signed A 3371, a bill that bans pro-heterosexual counseling for minor children, alleging that “experts” have made a valid case for keeping some adolescents locked into homosexuality. Any alternative advice is sure to send an adolescent on a course of self-destruction, so the narrative goes.



But New Jersey is all about muscle, as teacher Viki Knox learned several years ago. Viki, you may recall, voiced her concerns on Facebook about pro-homosexual promotion to her students and within two days was the subject of intense TV coverage, New York Times stories and all the media firepower the “gay-stapo” was able to launch. Homosexual militants stood outside Union High School with bullhorns demanding her job, and they got it when she was suspended.

Chris Christie chimed in on Viki’s dilemma. He called her Facebook comments “disturbing,” not a good example for someone in an influential position, and he used it as an opportunity to call for more accountability by teachers. “I would like to see an examination of how that teacher conducts herself in the classroom,” he said.

Instead of praising a teacher who showed genuine concern for her students, including moral integrity, Christie piled on someone already the subject of a vicious smear campaign.

So now Christie favors teens being denied the opportunity to overcome homosexual desires, which are not inborn but often the byproduct of early sexual exposure or molestation. No science has found a gay gene, but Christie said he believes people are born this way and that it’s not a sin.

There are only a few reasons why an alleged “conservative” politician supports such fascist left-wing schemes. Perhaps Christie doesn’t really have much of a heart for kids. If 12-year-olds are indoctrinated at school into thinking they are homosexual and end up the victims of advances by HIV-infected predators, maybe the governor is not too concerned. If New Jersey HIV incidence relating to homosexual practices continues to rise among youth, perhaps he can point to some other factor. Not his fault.

Another possibility is Christie really believes all this and is a woefully ignorant product of East Coast group-think. But he could also be running in fear of the “gay” lobby. Yes, they are vicious. Yes, they may try to ruin your life. Yes, they distort the facts, scream over imagined slights and use outright lies to further the cause.

Harvey: Gays Seek to 'Absorb the Personality and Identity of Another Person'

Linda Harvey of Mission America explained today that gays and lesbians are attracted to people of the same-sex because they are empty inside and seek to “absorb” the personalities of others. “Those who have left homosexuality,” Harvey said, talk about how “they’ve once felt empty” and as a result want “to absorb the personality and identity of another person, even someone of the same sex because the vacant feeling inside is so great.” “When others seem to have meaning and purpose, the feelings of self-pity can be overwhelming,” she continued.

On Saturday, Harvey spoke to Ex-Gay Pride Month and Ex-Gay Awareness Month organizer Christopher Doyle who argued that the “people who experience same-sex attractions often experience change in much greater change towards heterosexuality than the other way around.”

Harvey: LGBT Rights Leads to the 'Oppression' of Parents

Linda Harvey of Mission America is furious about the United Nations Human Rights Office’s Free and Equal initiative, warning that it will contribute to the “oppression” of parents and curtail the freedom of speech. She described the campaign, which promotes legal protections based on gender identity and sexual orientation, as “deceptive” since universal rights do not “apply to harmful, high risk, sexual conduct that no one needs to do.”

“No one, if these people have their way, would have the actual universal human right to live out a religious belief that upholds man-woman sexuality within marriage as the standard and all other sexual practices as sinful,” Harvey continued, alleging that the campaign is focused on “denying free speech and other rights, including forcing the indoctrination of children into accepting homosexuality whether their parents like it or not.”

She maintained that the “incidences of oppression and discrimination” by LGBT rights advocates “against people of faith and against parents are piling up.”

Harvey: Non-Discrimination Laws 'Create a Climate of Suspicion, Spite and Revenge'

Mission America’s Linda Harvey dedicated her program this morning to LGBT-inclusive nondiscrimination laws, which she claims are in fact “all about discrimination” and “create a climate of suspicion, spite and revenge.”

“If you disagree about being required to respect homosexuality -- however these folks want to define respect -- at work, at school, at the pool or at the playground, you may find yourself the victim of this unrelenting agenda,” she warned.

Gay-Inclusive Curriculum Leads to Witchcraft, Child Molestation

Last week, Sandy Rios spoke to a South Carolina teacher named Ira Thomas who denounced the National Education Association’s gay-inclusive curriculum during the union’s Atlanta convention and even compared the curriculum to instructing children on how to use crack.

Thomas also spoke about his anti-gay activism to Linda Harvey, a harsh critic of the NEA, over the weekend and this time said that gay-inclusive curriculum will let people force “things on us in school that we don’t believe in from witchcraft to even the molestation from children.”

Later in the interview, Thomas likened the issue to the Penn State abuse scandal where “so many people knew what was going wrong but no one spoke out for whatever reason.”

Thomas: There was another item about showing a video and I can’t remember what video but it was something dealing with the gay and lesbian [sic], but after sitting through several of those I decided it was time to let the voice be heard instead of sitting by and saying nothing.

Harvey: So what did you eventually say?

Thomas: In short I told them as a person I do not have a right to discriminate, but by the same token they do not have a right to disseminate what I consider to be harmful material to children. I do not have a right to tell them what to choose but they also do not have a right to choose a curriculum for me that I feel is biblically wrong. It’s like with prayer, it’s not right for me to put my Christian beliefs on anybody, it is right for me to share the Gospel, but even Christ gave us the choice. If we’re going to go there then the next thing we know we’re going to have everybody forcing things on us in school that we don’t believe in from witchcraft to even the molestation from children.



Thomas: I don’t want to take this analogy too far but the best one I can think of is the incident that happened at Penn State. So many people knew what was going wrong but no one spoke out for whatever reason. Even with this, we can believe it in our heart but if we don’t ever speak out we are allowing things to go and to keep going on and on.

Harvey: Homosexuality Is A Lot Like Overeating

Linda Harvey says gay people aren’t all that different from those who struggle with eating too much and obesity. The Mission America president argues that, like overeating and having unhealthy appetites, homosexuality is not innate and can be unlearned:

Many people struggle with appetites for food that lead to obesity but very few were born with a hormonal imbalance leading to weight gain, almost everyone learned these appetites along the way so unlearning them will also be a step-by-step process but it is most certainly possible, starting with facing the truth. It’s kind of similar with homosexual feelings. But no, the world’s message today is go for it, declare yourself and join the out-and-proud community.

Harvey claims the gay community relies on “feelings, identity and behavior: FIB…. And yes, that’s exactly what homosexuality becomes if acted upon. It’s a big lie.”

Harvey: Dying Gay Ohio Man Should've Married A Woman, Merely Pretending to be Married

Ohio-based Religious Right activist Linda Harvey today expressed outrage that a district court judge ruled on behalf of a gay couple, who are both Ohio residents but were married in Maryland, against the state’s ban on same-sex unions. One of the men has Lou Gehrig’s disease and is seeking to have his partner listed on his death certificate as his surviving spouse and be buried in the same family plot.

Harvey called their lawsuit “nonsense” and charged that if the men wanted to be married, they should have married women: “There’s no discrimination or inequality, either of these men could be married to a woman.” She said that the couple is in a pretend marriage, just like a girl who pretends to be a doctor simply because she believes she is one:

Can marriage just be what anyone thinks it is? Here’s a possible analogy. Sophie wants to be a doctor, she’s never gone to medical school but in her mind she’s qualified to treat patients, even perform surgery. But the law only allows the practice of medicine by those who have attended medical school, passed the state board exams and so on. But isn’t this unequal protection? Aren’t Sophie’s fantasies valid? She believes she should be allowed to practice medicine therefore the requirements to be a licensed MD are unconstitutional for her.

That’s right: a married gay person is no different than an unlicensed surgeon.

Harvey: Children of Gay Parents 'Sense Deep Deception'; Rob Portman Will Back Marriage Amendment Repeal

Linda Harvey yesterday hailed Cleveland Right to Life for adding opposition to marriage equality to its mission statement, which previously focused on issues like abortion rights and stem-cell research. During a radio alert, Harvey said that Cleveland Right to Life leaders recently met with Sen. Rob Portman (R-OH) and “made it clear that going forward his support for same-sex marriage will put him at odds with any official endorsement they are willing to give.”

“As part of that meeting, Portman revealed that he would throw his support behind any upcoming effort to overturn our Ohio marriage amendment.”

While Portman announced that he backs marriage equality earlier this year, the Associated Press reported this month that “the senator has indicated he doesn’t want to take a position as a campaign operative.”

Harvey later recounted her experience at a Pride Parade this year to rant against same-sex parents, suggesting that their kids intrinsically know something is wrong and are disturbed by their parents’ relationship: “Children know and sense deep deception and most children will sense something is not right with being proud of homosexuality.”

She found it “heartbreaking to see homosexuals haul their children proudly in front of thousands of people in the recent Columbus Pride Parade,” particularly a family with an “exploitative sign” which read “I love my two dads.”

Harvey hopes listeners tell the kids of same-sex couples that they should urge their parents to become ex-gays: “No one has to pursue a homosexual lifestyle and anyone with sense and genuine love for both the child and for our God and for his plans for us will tell that child the truth: lots of people have left homosexual desires and behavior to live lives consistent with the way God clearly made us.”

Right Wing Leftovers - 7/19/13

  • Matt Barber says parents of transgender children ought to be investigated for criminal wrongdoing.
  • No, President Obama is not going to take over all media.
  • I guess we shouldn't be surprised that Herman Cain appeared on Rick Wiles' radio program yesterday.
  • Linda Harvey says gay activists and pedophiles have "a plan to introduce sex to children at younger and younger ages to convince them that normal friendship is actually a sexual attraction."
  • Ralph Reed is out with an amazing new offer whereby you can give money to his organization and receive coupons and discounts and ... who knows; it doesn't make much sense.

Harvey: Gay-Inclusive Curriculum Hurts Reading Comprehension

Mission America’s Linda Harvey yesterday accused the National Education Association of pushing “non-factual, pro-homosexual propaganda” that will “harm” children across the country.

“The nation’s teachers’ union, which has many, many homosexual delegates, will disseminate this depravity throughout our nation,” Harvey warned. “This is truly heartbreaking and outrageous and will only stop when the moms and dads of America go to their state legislatures and stop it.”

Indeed, Harvey believes that such “indoctrination” will even damage the ability of kids to read. She said that the NEA’s reading campaign, which features First Lady Michelle Obama, is undermined by “backward, harmful political correctness.”

NEA’s going to ask Michelle Obama to head up a Read America program. That’s a good idea, but perhaps one reason children are falling behind in reading is because of so much concentration on indoctrinating them in backward, harmful political correctness.

Harvey: Homosexuality A 'Huge Threat to Children' that Involves Them in 'Depravity'

Linda Harvey told listeners last week that she is “incredibly tempted to say something like ‘I told you so’” after reading the news that Girl Scouts marched in the San Francisco Pride Parade. She said that the “primary reason” her group Mission America exists is because she sees homosexuality as a “huge threat to children and therefore to the stability and future of our country.”

“The picture here is obvious to all of you who’ve been following the destructive impact of this movement that these are the symptoms of a culture in meltdown,” Harvey said, “The involvement of children in more and more episodes of depravity is truly a new low.”

Right Wing Leftovers - 7/3/13

  • Rush Limbaugh says that while “the one in Egypt’s a military coup, here it’s a Democrat Party coup.” 
  • North Carolina Republicans have added far-reaching abortion rights restrictions to a bill banning Sharia law. 
  • Phil Burress of Citizens for Community Values wants Ohio Gov. John Kasich to run for president.
  • Speaking of Ohio, far-right activist Linda Harvey attended the Columbus gay pride parade. 
  • No comment: “Hi, I'm Ted Nugent. I have nine children from seven women, and I'm running for president.”

Harvey: Children 'Suffer the Most' from Marriage Equality

Following the Supreme Court’s decisions on DOMA and Prop 8, Mission America’s Linda Harvey attacked the “clueless, immoral leadership” of the Supreme Court for breeding “chaos” and not thinking of the children.

“It’s our children, especially those children in the states and the District of Columbia where this is now legal, who will suffer the most because their access to truth is going to be denied,” Harvey said. “Homosexual militants will now have their dreams fulfilled that American children will march to this new tune.”

Harvey even called on parents in marriage equality states to take their kids out of the public school system: “Concerned parents would be wise in same-sex parents states to remove your children from the public schools, things are about to get very oppressive for people of faith.”

July Is 'Ex-Gay Pride Month'

Earlier this month, a pair of nine year old twin sisters with two moms introduced President Obama at an LGBT Pride Month reception at the White House, and Linda Harvey is predictably disturbed about the whole thing, accusing Obama and gay activists of exploiting children in "support of a radical agenda":

One of the most outrageous things President Obama has done in his lavish support for all aspects of the homosexual agenda is to exploit the innocence of children. 

At a homosexual pride event at the White House, he allowed two third grade girls to introduce him.  It's really heartbreaking, friends, to see these sweet little girls enlisted to support a radical agenda.  They said they have two moms when the truth is they have one mom and, somewhere, one dad. 

So this is what these folks are proud up and despite what seems to be very sincerely-held beliefs, they are profoundly wrong and all of this will end up hurting many people, including children.

The homosexual movement is fast becoming a club to silence people who don't want to support this and don't want this taught to their children.

But there is hope, Harvey went on to inform her listeners, because July is "Ex-Gay Pride Month":

Voice of the Voiceless (VoV) is excited to announce the First Annual Ex-Gay Pride Month in July 2013! If you or your organization is interested in partnering to help sponsor our Ex-Gay Pride Awareness Day on the Washington, DC National Mall and Evening Dinner/Reception, please contact Co-Founder and Acting Director, Christopher Doyle at cdoyle@voiceofthevoiceless.info

We are actively working to receive a Presidential Proclamation from The White House to commemorate Ex-Gay Pride Month and are speaking with members of Congress to recognize and participate in our first annual Awareness Event on the National Mall and Evening Dinner/Reception in Washington, DC. See below for more details on Ex-Gay Pride!

When is Ex-Gay Pride? VoV is strategically holding Ex-Gay Pride Month in July, after June's annual gay pride month, in order to draw attention to the ever-increasing phenomenon of ex-gays or former homosexuals; that is, individuals who formerly had unwanted same-sex attractions and/or lived an LGBT-identified life, but now do not. These individuals may be in heterosexual relationships, pursuing heterosexuality, or living celibate lives as former homosexuals.

WHAT is Ex-Gay Pride? A time to recognize the unique experiences of ex-gays and former homosexuals and celebrate their existence in American culture. VoV is currently organizing events in the month of July to highlight the unique role of ex-gays in American culture and draw attention to increasing discrimination and hostility towards the ex-gay community in society.

WHY Ex-Gay Pride? Because former homosexuals are the last invisible minority in American culture and are increasingly subject to hostility from anti-ex-gay activists and the media at large, who is influenced heavily by the gay-activist lobby that discriminates and marginalizes former homosexuals. VoV estimates that ex-gays number in the tens of thousands (at least), but due to intimation and hostility, the exact numbers are unknown.

WHERE is Ex-Gay Pride? Currently, VoV plans to hold at least one event in Washington, DC in July to commemorate the First Annual Ex-Gay Pride Month. Because Washington, DC is the only jurisdiction that recognizes ex-gays as a protected class against discrimination in the United States, we believe this is a safe place to gather and celebrate free from any threat of intimidation.

WHO Should Participate in Ex-Gay Pride? If you are a former homosexual, individual with unwanted same-sex attraction (SSA), a friend or family member that knows an ex-gay or individual with unwanted SSA, or one of our allies, we welcome your support and presence at any of our events! Please e-mail cdoyle@voiceofthevoiceless.info for more details on how you can participate.

HOW Can I Participate in Ex-Gay Pride? VoV is currently looking for individuals and organizations to partner with us and help sponsor an awareness event on the Washington, DC National Mall and an evening dinner/reception to celebrate and commemorate ex-gays in the United States. It is important that we let our voices be heard or we'll continue to face marginalization and discrimination. This event is meant to celebrate and unite together for a common goal: to increase our public visability, tell our stories proudly, celebrate our unique contributions towards American culture, and unite against the hatred and bigotry against our communities.

Harvey: Gay Marriage Will Lead to a Generation Of 'Barbarians'

Mission America's Linda Harvey was a guest on AFA's "Today's Issues" radio program this morning, where she discussed the dangers of marriage equality.

As Harvey explained it, if gay marriage ever becomes accepted at part of the culture norm, it will fundamentally warp the worldview of children who will grow up thinking that it is okay to marry someone of the same sex. And if that ever happens, "it will revolutionize the psychology and spiritual development" of children by removing the fundamental "security level" that all previous generations understood.

"It's going to mess with their hearts, their minds, their spirits, and their bodies," Harvey warned. "I think that we are looking toward; I don't know that this is, maybe it's too strong a word, but raising barbarians":

Linda Harvey Likens Gay Acceptance among Youth to Believing the Sun Revolves the Earth

Mission America’s Linda Harvey yesterday attacked the College Republican National Committee for acknowledging that the GOP’s anti-gay stances were alienating young voters, who overwhelmingly support gay rights, and asking the party to “welcome healthy debate on the policy topic at hand.” She compared such a move to a science teacher instructing a class that there is a “healthy debate” as to whether the sun revolves around the earth because some “low-information students” think that’s how the solar system works.

While that is actually a great argument against teaching intelligent design and creationism in schools, Harvey said the situation would be like the GOP adjusting its rhetoric around abortion rights and gay equality in order to attract young voters.

Harvey even drew a parallel between same-sex marriage and racism: “Would a responsible party welcome a healthy debate on racism? Of course not.”

“Makes perfect sense until you remember that these young voters don’t know what they’re talking about,” Harvey continued. “Rather than pledge to educate the uninformed, the segment of these younger voters who are showing the effectiveness of propaganda but little wisdom; no, these researchers recommend the GOP back off of the truth.”

She accused the young Republicans of “ignoring all the evidence” about the supposed harms of homosexuality, which she said is “being packaged and sold to vulnerable children,” and catering to the “militant gay lobby.” Harvey even called for a third party based on Tea Party and religious values if the GOP turns into “the meaningless party.”

She offered a similar anti-gay commentary today, warning that Obamacare will aid centers that “blatantly promote the harmful, high-risk behavior of homosexuality,” along with Planned Parenthood’s “child extinction” clinics.

Harvey, who earlier called on people to refuse care from gay doctors and nurses, said that LGBT people are “in denial” about the health consequences of their “lifestyle”: “Any provider who encourages people to enter this lifestyle, especially children, or continue it or actively promotes it as part of the LGBT community, is in denial about the consequences. If you promote homosexuality, healthcare costs will rise, plain and simple. We taxpayers need to be more asking more questions about such irresponsible approaches.

Right Wing Leftovers - 6/10/13

  • Turns out the IRS manager who initiated the alleged targeting of conservative groups is a conservative Republican
  • Fox News’ coverage of the George Zimmerman trial is journalism at its worst
  • The Washington Times editorial board wants to revive the $500 bill and replace William McKinley with Ronald Reagan because “putting the Gipper on the $100 would require ‘the street’ to no longer conduct its business in ‘Benjamins,’ but deal out ‘Ronalds.’” 
  • Phyllis Schlafly claims Kelly Ayotte “betrayed every conservative who supported her” by backing the Senate’s immigration reform bill.” 
  • The virulently anti-Muslim group Concerned Women for America will now be fighting “increased anti-Israel sentiment within our government” as part of its mission. 
  • Charisma editor Steve Strang says gay rights threaten the freedoms of speech, religion and the press, and that the Obama administration has given the “homosexual agenda” the “red-carpet treatment.”
  • Southern Baptist Convention vice president Roger Oldham maintains the Boy Scouts “planted the seed of their eventual destruction” by including openly gay youth.
  • Linda Harvey believes “our children all deserve kindness and civility, and that can happen even if they are learning homosexuality is wrong.” 

Right Wing Leftovers - 5/31/13

  • Now that Michele Bachmann has announced that she is not running for re-election, her main Democratic challenger has declared "mission accomplished" and withdrawn from the race.
  • Eagle Forum continues to warn that "if an illegal alien amnesty is passed, then Democrats are likely to get a huge voter windfall."
  • Peter LaBarbera, Linda Harvey, Matt Barber, and others will protest the Human Rights Campaign next week to protest gay pride month because "homosexuality is against God; against Nature; very unhealthy; and a serious threat to children and religious freedom."
  • Bryan Fischer and John Stemberger say that the Boy Scouts of America voted to allow gay scouts because they wanted to be cool and have people like them.
  • Finally, "Christian men must understand that homosexuality is a direct raping of the relationship between Man and God."

Harvey: Gays like Bullies and Terrorists, Putting Boy Scouts at Risk for Sexual Abuse

Linda Harvey of Mission America is clearly devastated by the Boy Scouts of America’s decision to allow openly gay youth and in a radio commentary said that the “truly heartbreaking” vote was “a slam on authentic boyhood and manhood” that will have “our children corrupted as a result.”

The Boy Scouts of America embraced open homosexual attraction for boys. Boys can now identify as gay and announce that to the whole troop, and this is OK. The vote was 61 percent in favor. It’s truly heartbreaking to watch the morals of a revered institution disintegrate in this way, and our children corrupted as a result. America, how did we get here? The statement coming out of the Boy Scout organization said that even though they knew this would be controversial, “We can all agree that kids are better off in scouting.” Well, not true. This statement is just as naive and foolish as the proposal itself. No, we can’t all agree that boys are better in scouting, not now. Knowledgeable parents will move their boys at the earliest possible time to a much better organization. Why? Because many, if not most, troops will quickly become homosexually affirming climates either in theory or in real-time practice. This is a vote of weakness and a slam on authentic boyhood and manhood.



Folks, whatever the motivation for this move, it’s insane. Troops are not supposed to be social experiments or, possibly, therapy centers for troubled boys who may be leaning toward homosexuality. As we’ve said here before, kids who have same-sex attractions can change and often do by adulthood. But it is not healthy or right to involve other children with these very personal struggles as confused boys are figuring all this out, or maybe not figuring it out.

Writing in WorldNetDaily, Harvey accused gay rights activists of supporting child abuse and using “tactics that increasingly resemble childish middle-school bullies morphing into terrorists.”

Condom training, cross-dressing troop members and lessons on “homophobia”: Welcome to the new, improved Boy Scouts of America.



Well, “gay activism” happened, and the pressure was apparently too much. It just goes to show you how much influence this lobby has, with tactics that increasingly resemble childish middle-school bullies morphing into terrorists. And Boy Scout parents and leaders who actually believe the pink mafia will stop here are beyond naïve.



As time rolls on, there will be incidents of abuse. Will the Boy Scout organization report these? Let’s not kid ourselves. They just showed how compromised/intimidated/clueless they are. Expect cover-up upon cover-up in the future, eventually resembling the Catholic Church scandal.



The climate of assent will erode each boy’s code of ethics, either quickly or slowly, but it will happen. It will erode the Christian boy’s reliance on Scripture, his relationship with the real, living Almighty God and our Savior Jesus Christ. If he begins to doubt that God actually is our Creator, the One who decided long ago what is good and what is evil, and did condemn homosexual behavior as a sin, and if he is lulled into failing to use the brain God gave him to observe that two men together is observably wrong, this is a boy who is being enabled in truth denial. He is then vulnerable to all kinds of other corruption and, without an anchor, is really no different than any un-Scouted kid in our rudderless society.
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