Chris Simcox, co-founder of the Minuteman border patrol vigilante group, has been sentenced to 19.5 years in prison after being convicted of sexually abusing young girls.
Phyllis Schlafly is angry that the "disloyal" Ted Cruz has not yet endorsed Donald Trump.
Ohio-based Religious Right activist Phil Burress has announced that he is retiring.
David Barton says that if conservative Christians would just vote, they could take control of government: "With an additional five million voters, we would have all of the House all of the Senate and the presidency in conservative hands."
Finally, Richard Land is not comfortable with the prospect of Donald Trump selecting Newt Gingrich as his running mate: "I think a total of six wives for the president and vice president together is probably a few too many to make most evangelicals comfortable."
Today, Donald Trump’s campaign announced the formation of his Evangelical Executive Advisory Board, which includes right-wing figures ranging from ex-Rep. Michele Bachmann to Focus on the Family founder James Dobson.
After retiring from Congress on the heels of a campaign scandal, Bachmann has not let up in her radical preaching.
Yesterday, Religious Right leader Richard Land appeared on “Sandy Rios in the Morning” to defend North Carolina’s new anti-LGBT law, citing information he received from a group called the American College of Pediatricians.
Despite the group’s official-sounding name, the ACP is actually a tinyfringeorganizationlaunched by anti-gay activists who objected to the mainstream medical community’s greater acceptance of LGBT identities. The leading organization in the pediatric field, the American Academy of Pediatrics, has joined other health and children’s groups in calling for the repeal of the North Carolina law.
Nonetheless, Land cited the an ACP paper titled “Gender Ideology Harms Children” in an effort to substantiate his claim that nondiscrimination measures are “confusing and doing psychological harm to 98 percent of the boys and 88 percent for the gender-confused girls who eventually figure out that they are girls and that they are boys in order to further confuse and confirm in their confusion the small minority that don’t.”
“These people are practicing psychological and physiological child abuse on a whole generation of our nation’s children and it’s up to us as responsible and clear-thinking adults to stop them,” he added.
Land has previously said that gay couples with children are also practicing “child abuse.”
The crowd was so large that when Cruz spoke the Wilkses had to open the pool patio doors to accommodate about 100 guests who stood in 28 degree weather to listen to the senator.
… By the end of the six-hour meeting Monday, dozens of the visitors lined up outside a closed room to tape video endorsements of the Cruz presidential bid. Some attended Super PAC and campaign fundraisers held Tuesday in Cisco that were timed to coincide with the fly-in.
The gathering could have been even larger. Mike Gonzalez, who leads the South Carolina Pastors Alliance, was disappointed that some of his fellow clergymen were not able to make it because bad weather caused flight cancellations.
However, when he arrived at the ranch he was stunned to see a crowd of about 300, "including many of the most prominent spiritual influencers in the country."
Those in attendance at the Monday sessions included prominent televangelists, such as John Hagee, pastor of the Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, and James Dobson, founder of the Focus on the Family organization. Richard Land, president of the Southern Evangelical Seminary and a longtime leader of the Southern Baptist Convention, was there, according to interviews with attendees, most of whom were not authorized to discuss the off-the-record session. They said that there were a number of Hispanic and African American clerics in the audience, including Gonzalez and Voddie Baucham, a well-known pastor in Texas.
"It was a very diverse group of national leaders who have significant standing," said David Barton, a Texas Republican author and activist who is leading one of the Super PACs that sponsored the gathering. "We brought them with no expectations and we were highly pleased with the number who decided Ted is the right man to be of the president of the U.S."
Barton said the purpose of the gathering was "to give people an opportunity to become acquainted with Ted's faith and see if they were comfortable with it."
The Texas Tribune reports that prominent Southern Baptist leader Paige Patterson was also in attendance and came away impressed, calling it “the finest presentation I ever heard from a candidate.”
The Tribune reports that Cruz praised the Wilks brothers for their efforts to pull the country “back from the brink” and stop the “relentless assault we’ve seen on constitutional liberties and Judeo-Christian values”:
Speaking with reporters before the rally capping his two days in Cisco, Cruz heaped praise on the brothers, lauding their contributions to the oil industry in Texas as well as Christian activism throughout the country.
“They’re people for whom their faith is very important, and they’ve been willing to devote their resources to fighting for principles of religious liberty, fighting to defend life, fighting to defend marriage, fighting to defend the constitutional liberties on which this country is founded," Cruz told reporters. "Their entire family is focused on pulling this country back from the brink, from the relentless assault we’ve seen on constitutional liberties and Judeo-Christian values."
Before the rally, the Cruz family hosted a fundraiser at the community center that the Wilks were expected to attend. Sitting outside the room was another ode to the prominent hosts: a large placard reading, "A special thanks from Heidi & Ted Cruz to our hosts The Wilks Family."
The Starbucks cup outrage got a prominent new backer yesterday when Richard Land, the former political leader of the Southern Baptist Convention, said that Christians should boycott the coffee chain over the perceived snub.
Land was a guest on the Newsmax TV program hosted by former Arizona congressman J.D. Hayworth, who introduced the segment by playing a clip of the new Seth Rogen movie “The Night Before,” which Hayworth said was also part of the War on Christmas.
The Rogen movie, Hayworth said, is “raising a lot of concerns about Hollywood and the prevailing culture of the left, essentially trying to leave Christ out of Christmas or attack the whole notion of Christ at Christmas.”
On top of that, he said, “Christians get the feeling that Starbucks is waging a war on Christmas.”
“Starbucks has embraced the Left,” Hayworth told Land. “So much for diversity. Is it a big deal that they’ve gone to a red cup?”
“Well, for Christians it should be,” Land responded, “and it certainly will impact my patronage of Starbucks. You know, I’d probably have a chance to let them know, ‘By the way, I would have bought some coffee today if you had had a cup with Christmas ornaments on it or if you had a cup that was clearly Christmas, but I’m not, so that’s money you’ve lost.”
Land, riffing off a viral YouTube video in which a self-proclaimed evangelist said he got around a supposed Starbucks ban on saying “Merry Christmas” by giving his name as “Merry Christmas” to a barista, said that he would give his name as “Joseph, father of Jesus” in order to make Starbucks employees say the words.
Russell Moore, an influential evangelical leader who serves as the head of the Southern Baptist Convention’s political arm, has not been shy about his disapproval of Donald Trump, even as Trump continues to lead polls of Republican-leaning evangelical voters. It turns out that Moore’s predecessor, Richard Land, has similar feelings about The Donald, telling a Christian radio program this week that he was “dismayed” by Trump’s “mystifying and somewhat depressing” popularity among evangelicals.
“I guess I would have to say that I’m somewhat dismayed that Donald Trump is doing as well as he is among evangelicals,” Land told South Carolina pastor Kevin Boling on his radio program on Tuesday. “I frankly take that as a failure on our part to adequately disciple our people. I mean, Donald Trump’s a showman, Donald Trump’s a master at manipulating the media, but when we have so many good candidates, from an evangelical perspective, why perhaps as many as one fifth of evangelicals are supporting Donald Trump, who among other things is in his third marriage, has acknowledged that he’s never really had anything that he’s needed to ask God for forgiveness for, I find mystifying and somewhat depressing.”
Land said the better choices for evangelicals would be Marco Rubio, Mike Huckabee, Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, Ben Carson and Carly Fiorina.
Richard Land, the former head of the Southern Baptist Convention’s political arm who is now president of the Southern Evangelical Seminary, repeatedhisclaim on Tuesday that Barack Obama’s presidency is “a direct judgment of God on America” for legal abortion.”
“In our society, there’s an idea abroad that unborn babies are not fully human beings and don’t deserve the protection of the law,” Land told South Carolina pastor and radio host Kevin Boling. “That’s resulted in 57 million babies being killed, it’s resulted in a rise in euthanasia and rationed health care to the elderly and a brutalization and devaluation of human life in the United States. And I believe it’s also brought about the judgment of God.
“You know, nobody ever talks about the fact that if you wantonly turn your back on God and you engage in horrific and barbaric activities, God’s going to judge you. I believe that Barack Obama being president of the United States is a direct judgment of God on America for killing 57 million babies.”
Land added that the only reasons “why God has not judged us more severely than he has” is that “we have blessed Israel” and that “in spite of all of our paganism in this country we still provide 90 percent of the manpower and 95 percent of the funding for the worldwide missionary effort of the Christian faith.”
Earlier in the conversation, Land disputed the right-wing conspiracy theory that President Obama is secretly a Muslim, saying that the president is “a very typical example of a 21st century mainline Protestant who has a very cafeteria approach to biblical truth”
He added, however that the president is “sympathetic to a lot of anti-American causes,” citing Dinesh D’Souza’s movie “America,” to claim that Obama has “an anti-colonial bent that he got from his father and he just thinks America is a bad influence in the world, and everything ought to be done to withdraw American influence and to have other influence.”
Richard Land, president of Southern Evangelical Seminary, appeared on TheDove TV on Friday to warn that not allowing government clerks or business owners to discriminate against gay couples amounts to "the weaponizing of government" against Christians.
After host Perry Atkinson asserted that America is heading for more conflict in the wake of the Supreme Court's gay marriage ruling as more and more Christian business owners and government officials refuse to provide services to same-sex couples, Land declared that not allowing Christians to discriminate in this manner is unconstitutional anti-Christian persecution.
"To me, this is the weaponizing of government against its own citizens," he said. "This case of the baker in Oregon and the case of wedding photographers in other states, this is scandalous."
Richard Land is steamed that President Obama denounced Kenya’s criminalization of homosexuality, adding that “President Obama being president of the United States is in itself a judgment of God on the United States.”
Ann Coulter insists that “the Republican Party is going to go the way of the Whigs” unless it embraces Donald Trump and anti-immigrant rhetoric.
Alan Keyes attacks “the GOP’s quisling leaders” for failing to successfully defund Planned Parenthood.
In an interview with Newsmax TV on Monday, former Southern Baptist Convention policy head Richard Land, agreed with Graham’s comments, accusing the president of promoting “extreme gay rights” by speaking out against Kenya’s law, which punishes homosexuality by up to 14 years in prison.
Land also accused the administration of "trying to blackmail governments overseas” to lift anti-LGBT restrictions.
Richard Land, the former head of the Southern Baptist Convention’s political arm, said yesterday that a conservative group’s new series of videosfalsely claiming that Planned Parenthood is “selling aborted baby” parts may be the “Uncle Tom’s Cabin” of the fight against legal abortion.
“I think that this may be the equivalent of ‘Uncle Tom’s Cabin,’” Land said on Newsmax TV. “You know, when Harriet Beecher Stowe wrote that book, she put a human face on slavery. And Lincoln met her after the war had started and said, ‘I’m finally glad to meet the woman who wrote the book that started the war.’ I think that you may, the American people may now be forced to confront the evil and the barbarity and the savagery of the pro-abortion movement.”
WorldNetDaily is preparing for its annual “9/11 Day of Prayer and Repentance,” an effort to win God’s hand of protection back to America after “the beginning of the removal of our nation’s blessings” in the 2001 terrorist attacks, something that WND reports is “more important than ever” in the wake of the Supreme Court’s decision striking down gay marriage bans. In this effort, WND has the support of such Religious Right leaders as Chuck Norris and former Rep. Michele Bachmann.
WND also recorded a number of promotional videos with Religious Right leaders who were attending the National Religious Broadcasters convention earlier this year, including Ken Ham, the creationist behind Answers In Genesis and the Creation Museum, who agreed with the central premise of the event, which is that 9/11 was a warning sign from God that America continues to ignore, as proven by increasing support for things like gay rights.
“Personally, I believe from a perspective of reading Romans 1, that this nation is under judgment from God,” Ham explained. “The wrath of God revealed against those who rebel against him in Romans 1. And one of the signs of even God judging a nation and withdrawing the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit, one of the signs is the sign of homosexual behavior, as it says in Romans 1. And I believe we’re seeing that in this nation, I believe this nation is under judgment. “
Ham added that America must also repent because “this nation is throwing God out of the culture more and more, it’s throwing God out of the public schools, out of the culture, and murdering millions of children in their mothers wombs.”
Richard Land, the former top political official at the Southern Baptist Convention, pinned the blame for God’s judgment on Christians getting divorced, having abortions, and having sex out of wedlock.
“As long as we’ve got known sin in our lives, as long as there is virtually no statistical difference between the number of Christians who are getting divorced and the number of non-Christians who are getting divorced, the number of Christian women who are having abortions and the number of non-Christian women who are having abortions, the number of Christian young people who aren’t married who are having sex and the number of non-Christian young people who are having sex, God is not going to bless America,” Land told WND.
The right-wing response to the Supreme Court’s marriage equality decision has been, quite literally, apocalyptic.
It’s only been five days since the court issued its ruling, but conservative pundits have already predicted that gay marriage will ultimately be responsible for natural disasters, terrorist attacks and the destruction of freedom.
While there haven’t been any terrorist attacks against the U.S. since the court’s ruling, whenever there are, anti-LGBT activists will know who to blame: gay people who want to get married.
“They have thumbed their nose at God’s design for man, a man and a woman designed from the beginning of time and creation, and it will not, it will not stand,” she added. “While we’re under such terrible terror threats, you know, our protections have been lifted and that’s what they don’t understand.”
Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, also warned that “God’s hand of protection will be withdrawn as future actions from external and internal forces will soon make clear. I will do all I can to prevent such harm, but I am gravely fearful that the stage has now been set.”
“America’s elite leadership have taken the side of the enemies of God, and He will take notice,” WorldNetDaily editor Joseph Farah warned, claiming that such divine judgment “could come in the form of an attack on our country from foreign power or terrorist group.”
Rick Wiles, host of the End Times radio program “Trunews,” similarly predicted that God will now “lift His hand of protection from this nation” and “permit America’s enemies to attack this nation.”
Cliff Kincaid of the conservative group Accuracy in Media was a little more tame in his reasoning but came to the same conclusion: “A country that descends to the bottom of the barrel morally and culturally will not be able to defend itself against its foreign adversaries and enemies. Indeed, we have the evidence all around us that, as the culture has degenerated, our ability to defend ourselves has simultaneously been weakened.”
2)Forced gay sex
The right-wing warnings of “forced homosexuality” are now coming true, at least according to one pastor. Tim Brooks of the Christian Ministries Church told one conservative radio program that gay people, just like the men of Sodom who tried to rape angelic visitors, “are trying to force their lifestyle on him, come out and have sex with us, have to participate.”
Record-breaking floods have inundated Washington, D.C. just days after the Supreme Court decided they knew better than God. I seem to remember another time in history when there was a record-breaking flood.
God painted the sky with rainbow colors after that flood. This go-around - Obama painted the White House with rainbow colors.
Anybody got an ark?
Heavy rain may not be the only result of same-sex marriage (besides equal marriage rights for gay people), as some Religious Right pundits also believe that divine wrath will come in the form of food shortages and drought.
Wiles warned that “God will cut off America’s food supply and this nation will be hit with disease, pestilence, drought, natural calamities and a great shaking.”
“Nothing grabs the attention of the distracted faster than the complete removal of all creature comforts and extravagant wealth,” Christian Post columnist Michael Bresciani said. “Crops will fail, stores will close and commerce will come almost to a complete stop. It will not be pretty. Add to that, attacks from our enemies and natural disasters rising to meet the pride of the sinners’ right where it hurts the most.”
Five years ago, Religious Right leaders confidently predicted that prison cells and court rooms would fill up with pastors after the passage of the 2009 Hate Crimes Act. Of course, such events never occurred, but now the same anti-LGBT activists are making the samefalseclaims about the supposed consequences of same-sex marriage.
“Pastors who refuse to perform gay marriage and preach from the Bible should prepare for hate crime charges,” Starnes said. “All dissent will be silenced.”
Richard Land, a former leader of the Southern Baptist Convention’s political arm, was a little more cautious, explaining that pastors will indeed face prison if they refuse to officiate same-sex couple’s weddings, but only after the government takes a few “intermediate steps.”
Just days prior to the Supreme Court’s marriage ruling, Glenn Beck said that if the court were to decide in favor of same-sex couples, then the Bible would be outlawed as a “hate book.” Just hours after the decision came down, Beck offered another dire warning: He will lose his show.
“This could mean the end of radio broadcasts like mine,” Beck said, insisting that he will be taken off the air simply because he is “for traditional marriage.”
7)Taking kids from their parents
Chicago-based pastor Erwin Lutzer believes that parents who oppose same-sex marriage may lose custody of their children following the Supreme Court’s marriage ruling, predicting that “parents that homeschool children, religious parents, will be diagnosed as culturally intolerant and personality intolerant. And therefore, as a result, their children will be taken away from them.”
Rios, the AFA official, even warned that children may be forced to spy on their parents like in the Soviet Union.
8)This means war
Conservative legal activist Larry Klayman denounced the marriage equality ruling as a “harbinger to revolution,” urging Americans to take to rebellion like the Founding Fathers did.
“If evil despots have compromised even our Supreme Court, the ultimate protector and ‘decider’ of our rights, then what choice is left to us?” Klayman asked. “John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin certainly know, from their own experience with King George, and from their graves they see what now again lies ahead and what must be done to restore freedom to our shores.”
One conservative pundit, Bill Muehlenberg, told readers that “a major proper response for Christians and others” to the Supreme Court’s ruling “is massive civil disobedience and defiance of this homo-fascist decision.”
9)Pedophilia now legal
Former House GOP Majority Leader Tom DeLay, who promised that “all hell is going to break loose” if the Supreme Court decided to strike down state bans on same-sex marriage, declared that he has uncovered a “secret memo” from the Department of Justice that reveals plans to legalize “having sex with little boys,” along with bestiality and polygamy.
The website run by West, the former congressman, even claimed that pedophilia supporters celebrated the Friday ruling. As the myth-busting website Snopes notes, the blog post on West’s site was “lifted almost entirely from an article published in 2011 and in no way reflected a claim prompted by a June 2015 Supreme Court decision regarding same-sex marriage.” They add that the 2011 story “originated with a writer who has been asserting for years (less than accurately) that the push for gay rights is manifestly setting the stage for legalized ‘pedophilia rights.’”
Perhaps the blog post’s author received this news from David Barton, the right-wing pseudo-historian who just days before the court issued its ruling alleged, falsely, that pedophilia became “legally protected” following the passage of the 2009 Hate Crimes Act.
10)Criminalization of Christianity
The most prominent claim coming from the Religious Right in response to the Supreme Court’s decision has been what Family Research Council President Tony Perkins has called the government attempt to “eliminate” religious beliefs that oppose gay rights.
“In one appalling decision, the Supreme Court has effectively opened the door to the criminalization of Christianity when it comes to the marriage issue ... and not just Christianity, but every major religion that supports God’s model for marriage and family,” warned Penny Nance of Concerned Women for America.
Right-wing pundit Matt Barber made a similar claim: “The goal of ‘LGBT’ activists and secular progressives has long been to pit the government directly against the free exercise of religion – Christianity in particular – and to silence all dissent.”
One FRC official, Craig James, said that conservatives who oppose the same-sex marriage decision should respond to the coming persecution and ridicule “in love” … just like the families of the Charleston massacre.
Warning that the Supreme Court’s marriage equality decision puts religious freedom “absolutely, unquestionably and unequivocally” at risk, former Southern Baptist Convention political official Richard Land said today that the decision could even land pastors in jail for refusing to perform same-sex marriages.
“Unless we have a spiritual awakening in America, the battle for traditional marriage is over and the battle for religious freedom has begun,” Land told Newsmax’s J.D. Hayworth.
“I know it’s difficult for liberals to understand this, but we have convictions,” he said. “And convictions can’t be coerced and they can’t be intimidated and they can’t be threatened. We’re going to speak the truth in love. Just because five lawyers say same-sex marriage is legal, that doesn’t make it moral and that doesn’t make it right.”
When Hayworth asked him if the Supreme Court’s decision means pastors could end up in jail for refusing to perform marriages for gay and lesbian couples, Land responded that “it could” after a few “intermediate steps.”
Of course, in the dozens of states that allowed gay and lesbian couples to marry before last week’s decision, not one pastor has been thrown into jail for refusing to perform such a marriage, just as nearly 50 years after the Supreme Court struck down interracial marriage bans, clergy are still free to refuse to perform such marriages. Even some of Land’s fellow Southern Baptist leaders have denied the possibility that pastors will be sent to jail for refusing to perform gay couple’s weddings.
Richard Land, the former head of the Southern Baptist Convention’s political arm, appeared on “Sandy Rios In The Morning” this week to discuss growing support for gay rights and acceptance of homosexuality in the U.S.
Land blamed such trends on “a broad cultural assault on biblical values through the media, through entertainment [and] through MTV,” specifically calling out the “gay and lesbian, bisexual community” for its “sustained campaign” to “propagandize” Americans.
“These people have gone after the icons in our culture,” Land said. “They’ve gone after the military, they’ve gone after the Boy Scouts, they’ve gone after Disney, and you’re seeing a gradual waning of the influence of the worldview that made America what it is, the Judeo-Christian worldview.”
Religious Right activists and organizations areupinarms over a new Fox television program called "Lucifer" which, as its name would suggest, is about the Devil, who in this case happens to be running a night club in Los Angeles.
Southern Evangelical Seminary president Richard Land, a former leader of the Southern Baptist Convention's political arm, appeared on the "Newsmax Prime" program yesterday to voice his concerns about the program, the mere existence of which, he said, proves the extent to which Fox is "being influenced by satanic forces."
Calling the program "obscene" and "blasphemous," Land warned that "we live in a world that is racked with spiritual warfare, incessant spiritual warfare between good and evil and the Devil is the one that is fomenting evil. He's the source of evil in the world and he not only likes to take part in evil, but he delights in those who take part in evil with him and he enjoys and cackles with glee at all the pain and suffering he causes."
"He hates us and he hates God," Land continued, "and to portray him as some kind of romantic figure is not only tragic, it's wicked, and it just proves the truth of the Bible. The Bible says the he's the god of this age and the prince of the power of the air, which means that the Devil has some input into all worldly philosophy and all worldly activity. And Fox Entertainment is just showing the extent to which it's being influenced by satanic forces."
Southern Evangelical Seminary president Richard Land was a guest on TheDove TV a few weeks ago, where he declared that America's current political leadership is a sign that God's judgment is now upon this nation.
Land, who once called President Obama "a judgment of God on the United States," said that just as God heaped His judgment upon the nation of Israel, so too is He willing to punish America and is, in fact, doing so right now.
"I believe He is judging the United States of America," Land said. "I don't believe that you can kill 56 million babies in child sacrifice through abortion and not expect that God won't judge the nation. I believe we're in the state we're in today because of the judgment of God. I get asked all the time, 'Where is the next Abraham Lincoln? Where is the next Ronald Reagan? Where is the next Billy Graham?' Well, my answer is great political and spiritual leadership in our country is a sign of God's blessing; its absence is a sign of God's judgment."
BarbWire's Gina Miller is pessimistic: "Are we truly watching a perfect storm of tyrannical darkness conquer the United States? Have we finally been defeated by the ever-patient, ever-evil, embedded communists, who’ve had their wicked designs on our nation for at least a hundred years? Is our culture so rotten to the core that it can never return to virtue and right? Are America’s younger generations lost to Godless, communist indoctrination and ideology, which includes radical environmental lunacy and the eager embrace of militant homosexualism and the destruction of marriage and family?"
Richard Land is torn about whether Christians should attend gay couples' weddings, but he knows that he can never vote for any candidate who supports marriage equality.
Unsurprisingly, Land is very excited that Mike Huckabee is running for president because "preachers do not surrender their constitutional right to run for office, and participate in public policy, when they become ordained." Um, is someone actually arguing that they do?
David Kupelian says that gay rights are "like Voldemort, the arch-villain so feared by everyone in the ‘Harry Potter’ stories that they ‘dare not speak his name,’ almost no one – not Democrats, not Republicans, not Libertarians, not the media, not even most churches – dares speak openly about it."
Finally, Bryan Fischer says that the sneering, arrogant "cultural elites" look down on the Religious Right today just like they did at Jesus.
Laurie Roth warns that Christianity will be criminalized if the Supreme Court legalizes gay marriage.
Steve McConkey of 4 Winds Christian Athletics worries that "Bruce Jenner's interview with Diane Sawyer on 20/20 will be glorified by the LGBTQ movement."
BarbWire's Gina Miller declares that "Our nation has become a lunatic."
Richard Land says that American Christians are the real victims of discrimination: "It's ugly; it's thuggish; it's brutish. It's the totalitarian left in all of its ugly face."
Finally, Phil Burress and the Citizens for Community Values Action PAC have turned against Ben Carson because Carson endorsed Rob Portman, whom CCV is working to defeat in the GOP primary: "[I]f you come out and endorse a candidate who believes in same-sex marriage, then that pretty much puts you into the same camp."